Content Creation Strategies: Using Video To Effectively Communicate With Atiba de Souza
The rise of the creator economy has made it possible for individuals to build successful businesses around content creation. In this episode, Tom Dardick and Atiba de Souza discuss the significance of content creation and business, emphasizing authenticity and self-connection. They explore the unfortunate case of Robin Williams, suggesting imposter syndrome might have contributed to his tragic end. Atiba also shares his journey into SEO and digital marketing, highlighting the importance of consistent publishing and thoughtful questions. They touch on the evolution of communication due to the pandemic, the role of technology, and the importance of recognizing individual worth. Today’s conversation is packed with golden nuggets, so join us and fill your bucket with insights.
Listen to the podcast here
Content Creation Strategies: Using Video To Effectively Communicate With Atiba de Souza
It's my great pleasure to welcome Atiba de Souza to the program. Atiba is the Superman of content. He's been in SEO and digital marketing since the beginning in 1996, as far as it relates to the web. He learned SEO from the inside out and shares some fantastic insights that are basic things that whenever we do anything, they're things that we should keep in mind. Get ready for a great ride with Atiba de Souza.
Thank you, Atiba, very much for joining me. I appreciate your time. The Superman of content is something that I'm very anxious to talk to. It seems like no matter who we are in today's business world, we are in the content production business. What you offer to people as an expert is somebody who can help get over that threshold.
My first question is around the idea of for somebody who is a little skittish or unsure about how they might make a video message even to somebody they know or even at a small scale, and then build it from there, what are the things that you would like people to know to encourage them to move forward?
That's a great question to start us off with. I'm going to be completely honest with you. It's not easy and so you're feeling that it's not easy is okay. It seems like for people and people like me, it seems easy. Yesterday, I needed to do three videos and I only got through one. I can only get up the nerve to do one. I go through the same stuff you do.
That's one of the things that I love to share with people. It is the understanding that the same wind is blowing on all of us. I hope that it helps you not feel less special but makes you realize your feelings aren't unique. You're not the weird one. You're not the one who's out there all by yourself. We all are going through a very similar struggle.
I want to stay there for a second. In the Eye of Power community, it's about seeing our power, seeing our agency, and seeing our ability to move forward. What you're talking about is when something is confusing and daunting, it seems like we can't do it. We've got this tape in our mind that's saying, “That's not for me in whatever way.”
We're condemning ourselves saying that we can't use this tool or whatever. I think that's a very important thing for us to focus on. This is another example of the kinds of things that could be a barrier to people. They might be holding themselves back without even maybe thinking about it or knowing about it.
Here's a part of the reality, especially when we look at the Eye of Power and we're looking at the things that we are powerful in. Very often, you see someone and you may see them on social media, you may see them on a stage, you may hear them on TV or radio and it resonates with you, even to the point of sometimes saying, “I wish I could be like that.”
I'm not talking about sometimes someone gets up and makes a great point. You'll say, “That's a great point.” That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is when your inner being connects and says, “That presence that you have is powerful and I wish I had that presence.” It’s not the message, but the presence.
When your inner being connects, your presence is powerful.
That's important because what's going on is you are saying to yourself, “We have those qualities.” When you see that in someone else, it's you saying to yourself, “I have that inside of me, it just hasn't come out yet.” In that moment when we say, “That's them, this is me, I can't get there,” we're denying ourselves the opportunity to be our true selves. That is the key to being on video. That is the key to creating content. It is the understanding that your true self needs to connect with someone else's true self.
That's fantastic because it is about getting out of our own way. When we're not our true selves, what are we being? What is it? It's these ideals, expectations, defense mechanisms, personas, techniques, or whatever they might be. It’s these things that we're trying on for size because we think that we're trying to produce this specific effect, impress this person, not disappoint this other person, cover up this thing I don't like about myself, or whatever it might be, rather than training ourselves to let that go and find what's real and then express that.
That's true no matter where we go, whether we're sharing via video or having a conversation with anybody. It's a great thing for us all to nourish along our journeys. As it relates to producing content, what I tend to hear you say is that people can tell if you're not perhaps there because that's the presence piece. You're going to feel that presence if you're connected. If you're not, maybe that's where things might not be so smooth or effective or what.
One of the interesting things that we do a lot in my company is personality assessments when we're hiring people. We like to look at what people's self-persona is and what they portray and see how different they are because the self will always come out. It's only a matter of time. That's the same thing when we're creating content. If I come on here and I am someone who I am not, they may see the act that I put on now and think, “That act was great.” They do not recognize that as an act, but that was great. They call me and then they reach out to me and it's a completely different person. Now we've broken trust. Once you break trust, you're done.
You're pointing towards the necessity of congruence and of being that genuine person in the various circumstances we find ourselves. The person who came to mind as you were talking about that is somebody like Robin Williams. He's about as successful as a performer can get, but also about as sad a person, taking his own life. You have to get to a pretty desperate place there. Perhaps it's related to this dynamic we're talking about where I feel like the person that everybody in the world is responding to is not actually me. Therefore, who am I and what's my value? Am I onto something there?
Yes. None of us can speak directly to Robin and where he was and what he was going through but we talk about it and it's a thing. There is imposter syndrome. There are two types of imposter syndrome. There's imposter syndrome where you exist in a place where you feel like you don't belong because you're devaluing your actual worth.
I’ll give you an example. You are an accomplished whatever in whatever field and have been doing it for umpteen number of years, but you enter a situation and you feel like, “I'm not that great because there are others around who've done it longer than me.” You've done it differently and you bring your piece to it. You have tons of value and you feel imposter syndrome. There's the other side of imposter syndrome where you know you've been living a lie. You know you've been selling that you are what you're not. You're constantly running to keep up so that nobody can figure out that you're not.
That's a tough place to be right there.
There are lots of psychological sides to it that affect how someone views truly themselves. I don't know if that's where Robin Williams was or not, but that's a tough place.
To me, it's a very dramatic case of somebody who on paper had everything and inside felt like he had nothing and maybe less than nothing. That one hits me as a dramatic example, but taking it down to somebody who perhaps has a business of some kind. They know they should be sending more video content out to both the current constituents of their client base, and perhaps past customers or future customers.
Sell Through Soul Connection
They know that they don't have to be sold on the idea that video is the future or that it performs better or that you're able to connect more, like in the way we're talking about, soul-to-soul connection in this way. Not to be sold on that, they just have to be sold on how they might do it. What's your guidance and coaching? What's what would you tell somebody in that situation?
There are two sides. Number one, on the practical. When someone walks into your office, when you get on a Zoom call with someone, you have a conversation with them. At this point in your career in life, you're probably pretty adept at having conversations about what you do. We're proud of you for that. It's a great thing.
Video is no different. Often we feel like, “I'm going to turn the camera on and now I'm talking to the world.” No, you're talking to one person. There's only one person that you're talking to. I to this day still imagine that one person on the other side of the camera. Talk to them and have a conversation directly with them.
It's always important in any type of marketing and any type of content to know who your ideal customer is. Who is that person that you're talking to? Who is that person who makes you get up and jump out of bed to serve them every day because you're excited about the outcomes that your business brings for them and changes in their world?
It's always important to know who your ideal customer is when you're marketing or making content.
Who is that person? That's the other person sitting on the other side of the camera. That's who you're talking to. You're going to say, “I'm talking to them, but what am I talking to them about?” It's no different than when they call you. They ask you a question and you answer it. What do you create in your content? You answer questions that people ask you. That's it. It is that difficult.
That's one side. The other side is you might know all of that. You might say, “I know what they're talking about. I know all this stuff,” but you still won't do it. You're playing selfish. Let me say it to you bluntly. You're selfish. You're being selfish. You know full well that you have a gift. You know full well you have the answer that people are looking for and you're not willing to share it. I know it might sound harsh, but that is the definition of selfishness, so stop being selfish.
Some tough love, but that is it. What are you putting in? You're putting your squeamishness or whatever it is over the value of what you can give to somebody else. This is probably like most things, there's a spectrum. In some areas, we do it. In others, we don't do it. Probably all of us can get somewhat better somewhere along our spectrum in this area or that area to pay attention to.
That's a very basic thing that we will all benefit from making that a priority to work on. There's also what you do for people. It seems like you also help people get over the more mundane, like the technical things or where they don't know how to maybe sustain an effort or create a strategy. Can you talk a little bit about what you do for people as it relates to that aspect of things?
Once you get to that place where you decide to stop being selfish, you're ready to create the content, and you're ready to get in front of the camera, people then start to face the other side of it. As you said, some of the technical stuff. I tell people all the time, screw the technical. If you want to get technical, get your phone. A cell phone is all you need.
This happened last week. I was talking with one of my clients and she said, “I don't understand. I'm trying to create these videos and I'm trying to do how people do the movement and I can't keep my hands steady and it's always jumping up and down.” I said, “You know what the answer is? You take your elbow and you anchor it to your chest and you hold the video. If you do this, you will stop jumping up and down. It's that simple.”
Don't overthink it. You don't need big fancy equipment. I'm in my studio right now, and in total, this is about $600 worth of equipment. All I do is create content. You don't need to spend a ton of money. You don't need big fancy equipment. Your phone is all you need. That's it. That takes care of the technical side.
In terms of creating the video and editing the video, there are great apps on your phone that you can use. CapCut is great for editing videos on your phone. In terms of publishing content, here's what I'm going to tell you. Every algorithm loves consistency. If you can do it every Tuesday, do it every Tuesday. If you can do it four times a week, do it four times a week. Be consistent. It's better to do less consistently than more sporadically.
It's better to do less consistently than more sporadically.
That's good advice. For instance, this podcast comes out every Tuesday. I am thinking of possibly adding another day, but I'll keep the Tuesdays for sure and possibly add on top of that. Would you say adding one more day and keeping on that and being consistent with another day during the week would be an important consideration for me?
Yes. It's all about what you can do consistently and sustain. The algorithms are like your credit score. You know full well that you pay your bills every month on time, but it takes one month. That month when your credit card hit the expiration date and the bill didn't get paid. All of a sudden, it shows up on your credit report and your score. The algorithms are that finicky as well.
Stay consistent. In your case, when you say adding another day, it's like adding a new credit card to your credit report. If you're going to add it on, make sure you set up auto-pay every single month. It’s the same thing here. If you're going to add on Thursday, make sure that you know, “I've got enough content that we can be consistent and persistent with Thursdays.”
That's important. Thank you for that. Let's take it to your personal story a little bit while we have some time to go there. I understand from a little bit of research, you've been over 25 years in the field of SEO and digital marketing. How did you get in that? What do you love about it? What have you learned? Give us a little bit of your journey.
I started in 1996. Two friends and I started what was called a Computer Consulting business back in 1996 because that's all you called it back then. Truthfully, it was an accidental entry into SEO because, in 1996, the web was still barely anything. We were searching and finding and learning stuff back on the text-based web and using browsers in Netscape if you remember Netscape for those who are old enough.
Bookmarks in browsers suck in 2024 and they were way worse in 1996. We had a problem because we were learning and finding all of this great stuff, and then we had this mass between the three of us of bookmarks. You couldn't find anything. We set out to say, “What if we created something where we could search all of our bookmarks and all of the stuff that we find?”
SEO And Story
We wrote a search engine in 1996. That was my start in SEO. I learned SEO from the inside out, done SEO for private, and done search and SEO stuff for the government over the years. It was about 2006 or so when I started to look at where the industry was going and realized that it was more than just SEO. It was SEO and story. Nothing holds human attention like a story. To create good content, content must have a story. Otherwise, it won't hold human attention.
We were in a situation where Google wanted stuff that they considered good quality content that would hold human attention. If I wrote about a topic in a story form that was relevant to a particular audience, Google seemed to like that. The audience seemed to read it when we put all of that together. In about 2017 or so, it got to the place where the term SEO started becoming commoditized, which was frustrating because we were a boutique agency in what we did. It's hard to compete against commodities in that sense. That's when we started realizing that video was the future. It wasn't even written anymore.
When the pandemic hit, a lot of stuff changed. It gave us the opportunity to refocus the company on video and video first and create quality video content through stories. It’s the same principles to help videos rank and get the correct eyeballs. It's the same thing. Whether you're writing written content or video, you're doing it for one person. Right now, if you're tuning in to us, it's just you. We're talking to just you. That's a bit of my story.
Now going forward, we've got a new world. You pointed toward the pandemic and how people are far more accustomed to communicating in the way you and I are right now than they were four years ago. I don't see that changing. What I love about that is you and I have met. We have synergy. Now we know somebody that we would not have known beforehand. All the time, I have chances to talk to people. I love that aspect of doing a podcast and meeting people from all over the world. It seems like the world is small compared to what it used to be. I can help anywhere. I can connect with anybody anywhere in a meaningful way.
There's a tremendous amount of good in this cup. Not that it's ever going to replace the energy of being in person with people. That's another different thing, but it does augment and give us leverage. I'm building this all up for a question for you. What do you see for the market, your company, or the future of these conversations coming down the road in the next few years? If you had your crystal ball, what are some of the things that you'd like people to be aware of and pay attention to?
I want to go back to something you said a little bit earlier in the lead-up to the question. You talked about talking to people all across the world. You said that the world is getting smaller. I don't think it's getting smaller. I think it's getting more connected. I think the worldview is getting bigger. I think our ability to see and understand is growing because now you can get perspectives from everywhere.
We have staff now around the globe. It changes your understanding of humanity. It changes your understanding of communication. I give you a perfect example of this. I am someone who prides myself on the ability to communicate. Having staff around the globe challenges daily my ability to communicate because of the cultural differences alone, much less the background and understanding differences mashed on top of that and whirled together to create this soup of I've got to be way more thoughtful in the way I communicate.
I think that that's where we're going in the future. I think where we're going in the future, we have this convergence of things that are going on. I've been saying this for a year and a month and a half, which is with AI specifically, dumb people are going to get dumber, and smart people are going to get smarter. It's going to be in the hands of the creators. The creative ones are going to take us forward because they're going to be able to communicate with each other, with us, and with AI in ways that propel society. They're going to ask questions on levels and planes that so many of us are not thinking about. That's the key.
For those who are tuning in, learning to ask questions is the key to communication. Many of us think that communication is about what I'm saying out of my mouth, but what I'm saying out of my mouth wouldn't have happened if Tom hadn't artfully asked the questions. Let that sit for a moment. With your staff, it's the same thing. Many of us are used to telling and talking, instead of asking and gaining an understanding of where someone is and then helping them cross a bridge to where they need to go. That is the key to the future, both interpersonally and with technology and AI.
I don't even have anything to add to that. That is it right there. I mean, mic drop, out. I'm going to take that clip of your section that you shared there. I'm going to take that as a separate thing and use that. That's fantastic.
Please do.
That's great. I'm smiling so much because of that little thing that you pointed out to me. I was saying the world is smaller, but no. It's more connected. It seems like it's a little semantic thing, but it’s little ideas like that. It's not smaller, you're right. The possibilities are bigger. I had that little word in there that if you substitute more connected opens things up.
Whereas smaller seems to close it back down so I can be a little bit more isolated, and not be so intimidated by how wide the world is. It may serve a purpose, but a slight little things like that make all the difference in our framing. That's another reason why what you said about remaining in the question, it's funny as you work in a field. As you get there, you almost forget what you learned in the beginning and it's easy to assume that people know all this stuff. You forget what you learned.
Exploring The Value Human Souls Can Create Together
We need to be in a very humble place where we're always asking the questions of each other. That's where all the power is. You started with the truth or with us being our authentic, our true selves and being there. It's that humility of exposing ourselves to the world, being there, and wanting whatever it is. Whether I like the message or not doesn't matter. Whatever it is, that's what I want. When we can get to that place, that's when we can communicate. It doesn't matter what the culture, time, or language focus differences might be, it's still two human souls exploring what value we can create together.
What exists there in that reality is the human soul on the other side. Naturally, misunderstandings are going to happen. It's human. When you're approaching with genuine questions and gaining understanding, as misunderstandings happen, what ends up happening with this other person on the other side is you have a bedrock and foundation to come back to for the relationship so that the person knows how much you care to hear them. They approach the misunderstanding from a different perspective and feeling of, “We are on the same page. We may not be feeling each other right now, but I know at the baseline, we're together. Let's go back and let's rebuild together.” It changes communication.
When you're approaching with genuine questions and gaining understanding, you create a bedrock and foundation to return to for the relationship.
Being in the question means wanting to know what the other person thinks and perceives. Wanting to know that is a sign of respect because you're giving them respect. I'm going to start crying because this is the beauty of life. They count that person as valuable. That person matters. Those little things, if you're in the habit of doing that to everybody, it doesn't matter who they are, what they can or can't do for you. Nothing matters other than they're another human being or another person. If you give them the gift of being seen and valued in that small way that we're pointing to, that's one of the greatest gifts you can give people.
I'm going to share this here with you at this moment. As we talk about the world becoming more connected and being able to grow and expand more, the unsaid part is so many of us live where we can only see the ends of our noses. That's as far out as we go. Some of us might get lucky to see the end of the brim of our hat, but that's about as far out as we go and that's problematic.
Let me give you a quick story. I'm going to trace the story. I got invited to speak in Greece. I'm super excited. I've never been to Greece and we're working on all the details and God willing, we'll all come together. I want you to trace this backward. I got this invitation from someone who invited me to speak to their mastermind.
She sent me the invitation in December 2023 and said, “Could you fill in and speak to my mastermind in January 2024?” I said, “Sure.” I went in and did an hour with her mastermind, teaching them about video and marketing. Let's go back a little bit further. Before that, there were some people that I knew that she should connect with and so I've made text introductions, “Meet so-and-so. You’ll have fun.”
Go back a little bit before that. She and I spent about an hour and a half on a Zoom call together because she'd been super successful in corporate, but was starting in business and said, “Let's spend some time together.” She had some questions and I wanted to help her answer her questions. Go back a little bit further. About six weeks before that, I met her a few hours after she had gotten off stage and done a presentation.
A lot of people tried to approach her and I could tell she was annoyed by the way people were approaching her. I ended up later that day standing next to her. I turned and she was there. She said, “Hello.” At that moment, instead of being pretentious or anything else, I was just me. We had a conversation. We connected and she said, “Let's stay in touch.” She gave me a big hug, which happened to be six weeks before.
Go back a little bit before that. I was invited down to this event to speak on the stage because they said, “We're going to have 300 doctors in the room. Come on down and speak to my 300 doctors.” I got there and there were twelve people in the room. I could have been upset and frustrated, “There were only twelve people here,” and missed the opportunity to have a conversation with her.
I had the conversation with her out of kindness and with nothing of intent. She asked to follow up and then she set an appointment. We talked for an hour and a half. There was nothing for me to gain there. Often, we only see the end of our noses and we see, “There aren't enough people in this room and why do I want to talk to you? You're just starting in business. What can you do for me?”
That's all we see instead of showing up genuinely and being what the moment needs. Be the superhero that you are in this moment. Doesn't mean you need to be somebody else's superhero in terms of being something else. Be the superhero that only you can be in this moment. Show up as that in the moment.
Content Creation: Be the superhero that only you can be in this moment.
Atiba, thank you so much. I very much appreciate your perspective, your wisdom, and your stories. It’s fantastic and it's all around messaging communication through modern media, but it doesn't matter what the media happens to be or the medium of exchange. It's about being our authentic self, seeing the authentic self of somebody else, respecting that, and treating that person as the person that matters in that moment. Whether there's 12 or 300, it's always one. It's one person that you're connecting with at that moment. That's fantastic. Atiba, thank you so much.
Thank you, Tom.
---
Thank you, Atiba, for being on the show. I so much appreciate our discussion. I want to underscore a few of the highlights that you were able to share with us. The idea of talking to one person. The camera is one person. You went a step further. When Atiba said it's the ideal client, you're talking to what they call an avatar. It's that person who is the embodiment of marriage made in heaven between what you do and the customers you can serve. Talk directly to that person.
Even if you're in a public speaking situation, it's good advice to talk to one person at a time, not the whole time because if you're focusing on one person, they get a little nervous, “Why is this person talking to me?” You don't want to get that far, but you want each sentence or thought to be directed towards a person. I think that's a good thing to remember as we communicate.
He put some challenges down there. He said, “If you're not willing to share, you're being selfish.” It might be something like, “I'm afraid of this. I don't want to do that,” or “I don't have enough time for this.” Is that the truth? No matter how you're feeling about it, another question you might ask yourself is, “So what? Is it valuable or not? Will people benefit from it or not?” Do you want to be the person who took whatever change you could have made for that person and took it away from them because it was a little bit uncomfortable for you to do one thing? I think that's an important thing that we should pay attention to.
He looked at the technical side of things too, where every algorithm loves consistency. The idea of getting into a habit. The habits are so powerful. They either help us or they hurt us. As it relates to producing content, get into the habit and get into the groove. The other thing Atiba said that I treasured is, “AI will make dumb people dumber and smart people smarter.” There is going to be this rift coming from these tools. You want to be on the smarter side rather than falling into the traps of what algorithms and automation can do for us. They can make it easier.
We can get softer, we can get less creative, and we can get less energetic as it relates to building relationships in the world and being connected in a human way among others. It could happen that way. We get more dependent on things instead of being our own agents. I think that's very much in concert and what we talk about in the Eye of Power, building our own agency and power in this world to do things.
The other big thing that Atiba focused on there that I thought was good was the idea of asking questions and being in the question with people. It's not what you're saying. It's what you're inspiring. That's what good communication is and that's what good partnership is. It's what we're inspiring in each other.
Things aren't as transactional and as surface as what meets the eye. It's much more going on energetically. Paying attention to that energy, where it's coming from, and why is a very good bit of advice. Thank you, Atiba, for being my guest. It was a great discussion. A lot of wisdom there. Thanks again.
Important Links
About Atiba de Souza
Atiba was involved in SEO before the term was invented, beginning in the field in 1996. For the past ten years he has been helping brands build authority and thought leadership through SEO techniques. Atiba preaches that the fundamentals of great SEO is understanding your customer's journey to your brand and creating content that aids that journey.