From Sports To Entrepreneurship: Lessons Behind The Success Journey With Phebe Trotman
Behind every journey to success is unwavering determination and the resilience to transform setbacks into stepping stones. Never one to quit on a bad day, Phebe Trotman joins Tom Dardick to discuss her journey from her sports career to becoming an entrepreneur. In this insightful discussion, Phebe opens up about the challenges and lessons she encountered, including the disappointment of not making a team, facing a layoff, and discovering the profound significance of accountability. She highlights how these experiences have shaped her into an intentional individual with a passion for assisting others in navigating their unique journeys. Notably, Phebe emphasizes the importance of revealing the ‘real’ stories behind success, shedding light on the hard work and struggles that may not always be visible. Tune in and be inspired as you journey towards your own goals and aspirations.
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From Sports To Entrepreneurship: Lessons Behind The Success Journey With Phebe Trotman
It's my great pleasure to welcome Phebe Trotman to the show. She wrote the book Never Quit On A Bad Day, which is pretty good advice, as you'll see in our conversation. One of the things I'll point out is she was able to give five pointers as to how we can become more coachable ourselves, which is an important part of our success journey no matter what it is that you are doing. Help me welcome Phebe Trotman to the show.
My first question for you, Phebe, and first of all, thank you so much for being with us, is I wanted to get a little bit of your path, your book and your businesses around the idea of Never Quit On A Bad Day, which is sage advice. I know you have celebrated a sports career, soccer and coaching. I wanted to give us a brief run-up to how you got to the place you are.
First of all, thank you so much for having me. It's been an interesting journey. When I look back on it, there's been a lot of twists, bumps, little timeouts and reframes. I started playing soccer at a very young age, mostly because my older brother played. I started on an all-boys team. It was an interesting experience to kick off.
I was the only person of color, a little girl on an all-boys team, but it was a great experience to kick off my career because, in some way, I love the sport. For me, it was being able to play. I've been very fortunate to have an incredible career as an athlete. That being said, it wasn't always national championships and MVPs. There was an experience where I didn't make a team. It was devastating, but I learned a lot from that.
That has helped me in later years and throughout the rest of my career. From there, I was working full-time. I always had little side businesses and then I was laid off. That was another big bump in the road. It was a positive experience in that it helped me become intentional about what I wanted my life to look like. From that moment on, I was very intentional about building a business where I could operate from anywhere because I wanted to have flexibility. I wanted to be there for my friends and family.
All this has led to this path to write a book because I've wanted to help people realize that everybody has a journey and bumps in the road. This book is all about the story behind the story because I think oftentimes we see people and their highlight reel, not really knowing what they've gone through. I wanted to share a little bit of insight into that in hopes that it helps people along their journey as well.
Is that what you've noticed when you've had your high moments? People would come up and see all the glory and be happy for you, but we all project ourselves. They don't see the reps and the getting up. I don't know what time you had to get up at times, but most successful athletes have to do incredibly hard things that most people are not willing to do.
It's not necessarily something you're talking about. It shows on the field. All the hard work you do outside of even your scheduled practices is what is going to translate into having success on the field. I've talked about it when it comes up, but it's not necessarily the down moments that I always share. I do think it is important because there are a lot of times when you do see people, myself included, the highlights and you're like, “I want that.”
It's also the question of, “Are you willing to do what it takes to get to what that person has?” I’m giving a little bit of insight into that. I do think a lot of times people see my soccer career and they're like, “It must've always been easy,” not knowing. No, there was a time when I cried for weeks because I didn't make a team. There were times when I wasn't starting on the field. I was sitting on the bench and I wanted to get in that game. What did I have to do as an athlete to get to be one of those impact players?
That leads to a good segue into another question I have for you, which is the lessons that you take from the field, both as a player and a coach, and taking those and applying them to the world of work. What are some of the top things you find yourself extolling to people to say, “These are the things I've learned,” that may be a shortcut for you?
A big one at the top of my mind is accountability. At the end of the day, look in the mirror and have that conversation with yourself about, “Are you doing what it takes as an athlete? Are you doing what it takes for an entrepreneur to create the success you want?” When I look back on my career, I talk about not making that team. I was devastated and grateful to my parents because they gave me that, “You can continue to cry about it, but that's not going to change what's happened. What do you want to do differently?”
In that, I realized that I wanted to be an impact player and contribute, then it was like, “What can I do to make sure that the next opportunity that comes, I am an athlete that the coaches are like, ‘We want her on her team?’” That was my mentality. I took it upon myself to do the extra work. I believe if we can start being accountable versus looking outward and blaming other people, let's look inward and say, “What can I do differently?”
If you're not having the results that you would like to have in your business, what can you change? Who can you learn from? Can you get a different coach, a new coach or hire a coach? Can you learn from other people who have gone before you learn what they did? I truly believe success leaves clues. Learn from people who have what you would like to create and add that to your life.
I believe accountability is such a huge piece, then having that resilient mindset of continuing. Keep going. There are going to be tough days. There are going to be days you want to quit, but that's why the book is about never quit on those bad days. Keep going. If you're going to quit something, quit on a good day. We do talk a little bit about that in the book as well.
Never Quit on a Bad Day™: Inspiring stories of Resilience
I always think of Barry Sanders on that one where he could have had a few more years of stellar performance and he did a microphone drop basically on his career. That's remarkable because it's rare. We tend to hold on. Not that there's anything necessarily wrong with that either, but it's a hard thing to do to get over that headiness of success.
It's not necessarily saying everyone has a journey in terms of when it's time to transition into the next chapter or phase of your life. It's a personal decision for sure. There are reasons behind why you might want to look forward to something else and you might be moving from that into the next phase. That key with the whole Never Quit On A Bad Day is oftentimes, when we quit something, it's because we're frustrated and disappointed. We didn't get the results we wanted. We think it's not fair. Someone didn't treat us right or there are all these different reasons.
A lot of times, we quit things because we're frustrated. It's coming from a negative place versus pushing through that, getting to the other side, coming from a place of if you're going to transition forward, have peace with it because you're transitioning from a place of positive emotion where maybe it is time to move forward. In this case, maybe it was time to move forward into that next chapter for a variety of reasons. It's making that decision when you're on a positive and when you're filled with more positive emotions than making a decision from a negative place.
A couple of things that resonate with what you're saying there for me, one thing is it seems like if we're going to have that accountability and overcome whatever resistance to change we might have, it seems like you're highlighting the importance of relying on others, whether it be a professional coach or a mentor, some trusted advisor that can help us see our blind spots and get past those self-imposed barriers that got there or however they got there.
I've had coaches all my life. From a very young age, starting soccer at four, right through to now, I have had coaches in various capacities, roles, and mentors. I truly believe it's important to surround yourself with great and right people who have gone through some stuff because they can impart that wisdom. They can share their experience. As you said, point out sometimes blind spots. I also think it's really important to have a great community of people because here's the other piece. Let's talk as entrepreneurs. We have friends and family who adore us.
They love us and want the best for us. That being said, if they're not an entrepreneur and you have a conversation with them about something that's tough that's happening in your business, because they've never gone through it as an entrepreneur, they may share, like, and I've had this happen personally where they're like, “Why don't you go get a job? That solves it.”
They're coming from a place of love and protection. They want the best for you. They're hearing you come from, “I'm frustrated because it's not happening fast enough,” or whatever the emotion is. Are they the best person to turn to if you have a business issue? Maybe not. Maybe they're there for the personal side, but maybe you go to someone, your coach, mentor, a community who is in business, who can give you a pat on the back and be like, “This is just part of it. Keep going,” because I had that.
I didn't have a huge business family community, but I had business contacts in a networking group. I remember when I was going through tough times with my business and being frustrated because it wasn't moving fast enough. Thankfully, I had that business community that I could share it with and they're like, “Keep going. You're fine. This is just part of it. Push through. What can you do differently? How do you move faster?” I always encourage people, “Make sure that you have great networks in your personal life to help you through their personal stuff, but also keep in mind professionals is very important as well too.”
Make sure you have great networks in your personal life to help you through your personal stuff but also keep in mind that professionals are very important as well.
It seems to be choosy or discerning about who we're taking advice from. I always think of this as something that seems to be a recurring theme in a lot of conversations I have, which is the nature of trust. Quickly, trust is twofold. It's the character side. You can trust the person. They want the best for you. That's one element, but it's not enough by itself.
You gave a good example of why because your loved ones or the people that tell you, “Stop that and go get a job,” they think they're giving you the best advice because they're putting themselves, “If I was in her shoes, this is what I would do.” The other side is competence. You have to know your stuff. Maybe you don't trust me to do your brain surgery, even though I want the best for you. It might not be the best plan.
It's true who are you taking advice from. I always say, “Do they have something that you want in life? If they do, they've gone through it and they can give you advice on it. If they haven't, it's no fault of their own.” They're just coming from a place of love and protection, wanting what's best for you. I love how you said it, from their lens.
One benefit you have being somebody who's into sports and having those coaches, you learn from a young age how to be coached. There's a skill involved with that.
One of the greatest compliments you can give to a coach is they give you something to work on. You take it and do it. I feel like that is something that means so much as a coach now. Let's preface this by saying great coaches. Coaches who know their stuff, obviously, but when you have those coaches and they're sharing something to help you improve on your game or as an entrepreneur, whatever it is, when you listen to them, you hear what they're saying and then you implement it in your own life is the greatest gift back to that coach when you take that and put it into practice.
I've noticed when you say, “Why wouldn't you take that person's advice?” especially in a case where you actually hire the person and maybe pay them a good amount of money, they're telling you something, then you don't do what they said and then you think, “Either they're wrong or I'm cut out for failure or whatever.” You have all these problems that you accept as reality. What do you think goes on with people? What's your experience with getting people off the sandbar?
There are probably a lot of layers there. Sometimes, it can be your comfort zone because a coach is typically there. They're going to push you a little bit. They're going to help you push through that and get on the other side. A lot of times, too, within our comfort zone, it's nerve-wracking. If someone asks you to do something that you don't want to do and you have the alarm bells that go off that's like, “This is new. I don't know if I want to do it,” sometimes I believe that can hold us back because we're staying in our comfort zone. The one thing I do encourage people is if they would have everything they already wanted if it was already inside their comfort zone. Everything that you want is going to be on the outside or you would've already had it.
I encourage you to push through that. I do think it's okay to have a conversation with your coach as to why you are feeling blocked from doing what your coach is suggesting. Find out why they're suggesting to do something. If that result is what you're looking to do, then isn't it worth it just to go for it? Do it once, twice, 30 days, 3 three months or depending on what they're encouraging you to do, then you can always reevaluate it.
I do believe sometimes it's our comfort zone that puts us in there. The other thing I would say is if you're feeling resistance to what your coach is telling you, do you have that trusting relationship with them that you truly believe they have your best interests at heart? If you do, then hopefully, you will see that they're telling you to do this to help you get the result that you're looking to get.
It's a matter of when the student's ready, the teacher appears, or allowing ourselves to be coachable. Sometimes we're in our own way and maybe that's ego. Maybe that's past traumas or vulnerabilities that we don't have the gumption to look at squarely in the face possibly.
I think it comes down to how bad do you want it. If you have someone who's also giving you this wisdom, they've gone through it, they are someone who has the result that you've wanted to accomplish and that's why you have them and they're telling you, “Here's the recipe. Look and follow these steps.” You're saying, “How badly do you truly want it?” That's a question. It comes down to looking yourself in the mirror and having that tough conversation. That's okay if you're realizing maybe you don't want it as badly as you thought you did. That's totally okay as well, too. It’s having that conversation with yourself and your coach to say, “If it's not my comfort zone, I do trust this person. They have the result that I'm looking for and they're giving me great advice to help me get it and I'm still not doing it, do I truly want this as badly as I think I want it?”
You're giving me an idea here. I'm thinking in terms of if we could come up with a list of the attributes that would make somebody a good coachee, in other words, somebody that a coach would want to coach, we've touched on them already, but maybe it would be valuable to tick them off. If we had a list of 4 or 5 of those, what would be some of the top ones that come to your mind?
I would say wanting it. Being hungry for it, whatever it is in that person's world journey. Taking action based on what that coach says. Being hungry is one thing, having that burning desire and number two, then taking action based on what they said. Self-reflection/accountability. Being open to realizing, “I didn't take as much action as I should have and that's on me.” Having those conversations and being okay with having that accountability with yourself as well.
Resilience, realizing that it's not even when you're following, hungry or you're taking action based on what they said, it still might not go exactly as you want, but are you willing to get back up one more time? Every time you get knocked up, bounce back up, then also gratitude. Being grateful that you're part of this journey and finding the great parts in that journey is a huge part.
I say grateful, but that rolls into attitude, having a positive attitude, realizing that it is a journey finding the gems along the journey of whatever it is that you're looking to accomplish because attitude is huge and working with people who have a great attitude, realizing it's not always going to be easy. You may not get it as quickly as you want, but the growth in the journey and realizing that is a great part of it. If you're going to work with someone, those are the types of people that I would love to work with.
That is a wonderful list right off the top of your head. It's pretty impressive that you're able to do that. The one thing that I'm thinking about as a result of that is the resilience side, it's funny that some of the expectations we tend to formulate. Who thinks that you're going to be able to do something the first time you do it that you're never going to have any setbacks and everybody's going to do exactly what you want them to?
To think in terms of having a picture of a curve of success that means nothing, but going straight up versus, I tend to tell people, “Think of the stock market. There's going to be days where it's going to be awesome and it's going to suck, up and down. Day-to-day, you're not going to be able to tell what it's going to do. Over time, you're hopefully seeing a trend up if it's a valuable investment.” If you're a valuable investment, and you know if you are because if you're focused on serving others, that's what value means. If you're focused on serving other people, by definition, that makes you valuable. If you're a valuable investment, then you should expect that path.
It's interesting because, as you're saying that, who goes in expecting that we're going to be great the first time, instant success? I'm laughing because, as you're saying it, it's funny to me because I go into that still with new things, too and I'm like, “Absolutely, I'm going to crush it right away, then it doesn't happen.” Now, I'm at a point where I accept that it's not going to necessarily happen. I go in with the mentality of, “I'm going to crush it,” with the understanding that it doesn't always work that way.
Sometimes, you might get into something new and create success right away, and that's great. However, a lot of times, it's because you've had skills, stories or techniques things that you've brought from your past that come over that is applicable. As you're saying, it's interesting as humans, I feel like we naturally think that everything's going to be straight up and it's not like that. It's training ourselves to go in with wanting to create success right away, understanding that there may be dips. It's okay to have a dip because you're learning as you go.
It's okay to have a dip in your journey because you're learning as you go.
The piece that I sometimes lose sight of is, for me, I am perfectionistic, so I have power, for instance. I want it to be perfect and right out of the gate. That slows me down. I have a coach helping me say, “You build it as you go. Don't expect it to be something you're not going to change as soon as you learn something new.” That's what I tell other people.
It's having that conversation, the mirror talk.
A good way for us to wrap is no matter who you are, where you are in life, whether you're an acclaimed athlete like Phebe or somebody who's been in business for a long time by themselves or whatever the heights that you've scaled, no matter what we are all works in progress. We have a little bit of humility. Take a little bit of the air out. We don't have to be serious. We can laugh a little bit. We can laugh at our own foibles and allow ourselves to be vulnerable so that we can be more self-reflective and more resilient and end up there more grateful for what we do have.
To have fun along the journey and realize it is a journey. It is a journey to embrace it, find the great moments in it and realize that you must continue to put one foot in front of the other. Keep moving forward.
I love that. You dropped a lot of wisdom on us there. I appreciate that. Is there anything else you'd like to add? Do you have any other thoughts that you want to share with the audience?
One thing I will leave everyone with because I found it was transformational for myself very early on is that I set a calendar reminder on my phone. Every single day at 9:10 PM Pacific, a reminder pops up and it says, “I'm happy and grateful that.” The reason I did that is gratitude is part of my life. I wake up. I find moments throughout the day. I still have the calendar reminder, but I challenge people to do this. Set a calendar reminder, whatever time of the day you want in your life, where you can have something that pops up and it forces you to stop for two minutes. Sometimes it's ten. It might even be ten seconds, depending on where I'm at during the day.
It helps you be intentional about finding gratitude. I challenge people to do that. If you're not already finding moments to be grateful throughout the day, start with one, but be intentional with it. Set that calendar reminder and watch how you start to shift in terms of your perspective. Gratitude helps you shift that perspective to be a little bit more positive. Being intentional with it helps because that's something I did many years ago when I wasn't always finding moments to be grateful.
I'm smiling because one of my coaches called it his brag book, but every morning at 7:00 AM when I get up, the first thing I do, rather than look at the phone, email or anything like that, I get out my journal and write in my gratitude journal. Some days, I can't stop. Other days, it's like, “Can I write something new here?” For the most part, it's a great way to get yourself into that space. Your idea of the reminder there is good because you might catch yourself at a spot where it makes a big difference for you.
It was a long time ago that I first started that because some days, I'd be grateful. Sometimes, I was not because business wasn't going as quickly as I would've wanted and planned. As we said, “Jump into business and we expect right away.” It forced me to be intentional with my gratitude. I found that it doesn't change the situation, it shifts your perspective. When we can shift our perspective, incredible things can happen from there.
When we can shift our perspective, incredible things can happen.
I encourage people to do it and watch what happens in your day. Especially like mine, I do it before I go to bed, and then I do other things as well. That's where I started. It was something every single day I'd pop up and it forced me to pause and be like, “What am I grateful for today?” I'd love to hear from the community how it shifts in their life because I know it will help you tremendously along the journey.
One thing I'm grateful for is your time and getting to know you a little bit better and the knowledge that you've been able to give to us. There are some big pearls of wisdom there, and I very much appreciate that. Thank you so much.
Thank you so much. It's been a pleasure. It's great to connect with you. I love everything that you're doing to help and inspire and encourage. Keep up the great work.
Thank you so much. I appreciate that.
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Thank you for being my guest, Phebe. I appreciate everything you shared with us. The couple of things that I want to underscore, I love when you said, “Everything you want that you don't have is outside of your comfort zone.” We know that well in the Eye Of Power community. That's related to the pain quadrant.
Another thing she said is, “If you're struggling with taking direction, making those changes, to ask yourself, ‘Do you really trust that source,’ whether it be a coach, a mentor or whoever it is you're listening to? ‘How badly do you really want something?’ is another way to go.” To recap, the five things she identified that make people very good coachees are being hungry for whatever the goal is, being action-oriented, not thinking about it, not doing research but taking the steps forward, and the ability to self-reflect and be honest with ourselves.
Number four was resilience, making sure that we can take a licking and keep on ticking. The fifth and perhaps the most important one is fostering an attitude of gratitude. She had a good suggestion as to how we might do that by setting a calendar reminder, an alarm on your phone or something that comes up that reminds you to ask, “I'm happy and grateful that.” You fill in the blank at the moment that alarm goes off. You can do it in written form, make a voice recording or whatever it is.
Make sure that we're in that place of gratitude. Another coach of mine, Marc Von Musser, said repeatedly now that gratitude is next-door neighbors with prosperity, which makes a lot of sense. I thought those were very good nuggets for our conversation. I was very thankful that Phebe Trotman was my guest. It’s very nice to get to know her. I hope to see her again soon. Thank you for reading. Let's go.